Interview with Dave Long and Paul Page – Sentimental Tourists
by Killian Laher
No More Workhorse spoke to Dave Long and Paul Page of the Sentimental Tourists ahead of their headline gig in Whelan’s.
No More Workhorse: Can we go back 30 years? Did you know each other back then?
Paul Page: We would have known each other. Into Paradise and Whipping Boy played some gigs together and played in England together for a couple of shows. We went over and supported you guys, didn’t we, Dave?
We knew the guys from the circuit. To be honest, we didn’t really know many bands around that time, but I’ve often said this to Dave, Into Paradise were one band we felt we had kind of an affinity with. Whereas we didn’t hang out with a lot of bands on the scene at the time. We weren’t hanging out in the bars together, but we knew each other well and got on well anytime we met. So yeah, they would have been one band from that period that we would have felt a kind of an affinity with.
Dave Long: It was the same for us. We always knew about Whipping Boy. I used to go to the Underground even when we weren’t playing there. You’d go for a few pints and anybody could be playing there. I can’t remember seeing Whipping Boy in the Underground. We played a gig at McGonagle’s, which was a bit of a disaster for Into Paradise, but Whipping Boy played. We were kind of hot and cold, if you know what I mean. Some nights we got on, some nights we didn’t. The English gig, I was out with Jimmy (Eadie) recently from Into Paradise, and he remembers that gig a lot more. He remembers seeing Whipping Boy, and he thought they were amazing that night. This is after the Submarine album, isn’t it, Paul?
PP: It would have been post-Submarine, but definitely before Heartworm. The set would have been primarily all the Submarine songs and the first 2 EPs. We signed to Cheree in 1990 and did 2 EPs with them, and then we signed to Liquid Records for Submarine. So it would have been that period. We knew each other a long time.
NMW: How did this this project come about?
DL: It was a gradual thing. I knew Paul from writing reviews, and he had his Twitter site, and I started on Twitter. I had never been on it. I don’t have Facebook, and so the only thing I had really was Twitter, and I go on and off it. All I use it for is music. Paul was doing some reviews, and myself and Shane O’Neill were releasing albums. We did a commission for The Source (whoiwasandwhatiam), which was a really fantastic experience. The guy from The Source interviewed me and Shane, and Paul was listening to that show. I was talking about how I recorded everything on this tiny little machine, and Paul was asking questions. He just happened to tune in to have a listen.
I emailed him explaining to him about the machine. And then he actually went and bought one, but he bought a newer version. When you recommend something to somebody, you’re interested. About three months later, I said, ‘Hi Paul, how are you getting on with that machine?’ He said, ‘It’s great, I love it’. So then I decided I’d chance my arm. I sent him something and said, ‘Would there be any chance you’d put a guitar in this?’ And he did two or three nights later. I couldn’t believe it; it was really, really good. He sent me the music to a song called Happy Beatle, and I had loads of lyrics written for different songs. I was in the sitting room playing it, and the wife comes in and goes, what’s that song? It was basically the chorus, ‘sooner or later you’ll find your way back to me’. She’s going, that’s fucking brilliant! I sent it to Paul, and he really liked it, and that’s how it started. So it was really fun and really exciting and really quick.
PP: I think that pretty much sums it up. I hadn’t been playing guitar before I tuned in and listened to Dave on that webinar. I did it because I’d heard that commission he did with Shane and I thought it was great, and I just wanted to hear the lads talking about it. He mentioned this 8-track recorder, Boss BR-80, it’s called. It’s a tiny little handheld device that allows you to record 8-tracks. It has lots of functionality. Also has a drum machine on it. It has lots of guitar effects. But it’s this tiny little thing, €200 to buy.
I asked him where he bought it because after being that long away from playing guitar, I felt this pull to start trying to make music again out of nowhere. There was never a time during that spell I was away from music where I’d felt that before. I started throwing down some ideas, just really messing around, and getting back to playing guitar, because I was really rusty, as you would be after that length of time. And as Dave said, he sent me that song, and I have to say, when he sent it, I was really apprehensive, because I was thinking, ‘Jesus, Dave’s been doing this for years, and I don’t want to mess this up!’ I think I played a bit safe on it and tried to just play guitar that kind of complemented the song, and it snowballed from there. And as Dave said, it’s been so easy.
We both have these devices, and we exchange ideas, and I think it’s been really productive because we’ve been writing lots because it’s so easy. We’re not trying to organise to meet up and go into a room and sit down and write songs. A constant flow of ideas, and it’s just worked out really well.
NMW: How do you feel about the album (Without Love We Expire), a couple of months on?
DL: I actually love the album. It’d be up there with one of my favourites that I’ve done. Maybe we did it a bit wrong because we put out three EPs first. If we had maybe waited and the album just came out… do you know what I mean? But it doesn’t make any difference. I was just more amazed that people bought it, you know? The first print is sold out. We did a second print of it. A lot of it is down to the sound quality from Jimmy from Into Paradise. We sent him the stuff, and he did a lot of work on a lot of the songs; he mastered them, he mixed them, he produced them. It was great to have another ear, and it was great to be working with him again for me, because we’ve kept in touch, but we hadn’t really seen each other in ages. Myself and Paul have met him for drinks, and we did a concert in the National Concert Hall a couple of weeks ago. It was great to meet up and have a chat. To me, the album has been great; I love it.
PP: I’m really proud of it, more than anything else I’ve done because it’s a real homemade, homegrown thing. Everything done around that album was done by us. We don’t have a manager, we don’t have press guys, we don’t have anyone trying to plug the band. We organised the artwork, getting the album pressed, all of that ourselves. It’s a little bit back to that punk ethos of DIY. We’re doing it for us, but it’s brilliant that it’s found some kind of an audience. I would have been sceptical, but Dave thought it would find an audience, and it has. New people finding it all the time, and the only person that really helped us in any way on the album, as Dave said, and helped us quite a bit, would have been Jimmy.
I have to give him a lot of credit for what he did with it. We gave him those tracks, and he’s just a bit of a wizard when it comes to engineering, sound design, and mixing. He has that real good ear for that. I’m as proud of it as anything I’ve done in music because it’s such a DIY effort, and it reminds me of back in the early days of Whipping Boy when we used to go into printing shops to photocopy handouts to give out on Grafton Street, and we’d be trying to design the covers of those first 2 EPs ourselves. It’s a real throwback to that time for me. I really enjoy that side of us having complete control over what goes out under the name The Sentimental Tourists.
DL: The fun is in coming up with ideas for the covers. It is so DIY. There’s a few other people now involved: Joanne (Loughman) from the Glee Club; I had done something with her years and years ago on a cassette. So she sang on a few songs. The band that we’re going to be playing with in Whelan’s: Michael Murphy did some bass and some other things on the record. We’ve had a few rehearsals with the full band: Rory O’Keefe is on drums, Michael Murphy’s on bass, and it’s myself and Paul. The magic in the room when everyone is playing, you kind of forget the feeling. It brings you back to the old days of starting. It brings me back to the old days starting Into Paradise, or Paul starting Whipping Boy. This noise starts coming, and you’re singing on top of it, going, my God, this is great, it’s fun.
NMW: How did the National Concert Hall gig come about?
DL: Brian Mooney is in a band called the Next New Low. He was in a band called The Idiots, who a lot of people loved back in the day. He’s doing his own material now, like he did with The Idiots, but it’s quieter. He’s got some brilliant songs, and he asked us to play before him. Paul was saying to me afterwards, ‘What did you think of the gig?’ And I said, ‘It’s up there with the top 3 gigs that I’ve ever done’. The place was sold out, in a small room called the Studio. The sound was just amazing. Me on acoustic, Paul on electric, and me singing. It went down really well. I’ve never played to a crowd like that where basically there’s no drink involved and fights at the bar! You’re not doing the usual thing – everyone half-cut coming in. It was totally different. People sat down and listened to the music and really got into it.
PP: I have to say, it was really daunting. That was a daunting week for me because that would have been my first time on a stage in 15, 20 years? A long time. I had that (National Concert Hall) on the Tuesday, and then Dalymount on the Saturday, the Last Days of Dalymount! I was trying to prep for both of those gigs, and they were completely different gigs. One was our own stuff with set plans, and the other was working with other musicians doing a few Whipping Boy songs. It was daunting but an amazing week when I look back on it now, to get to play the National Concert Hall and Dalymount in one week. It’s pretty special.
NMW: Are you apprehensive about the Whelans gig?
PP: I think there will be some apprehension. We’re playing to our own people who are coming to see Sentimental Tourists, whereas the other two gigs… I suppose the first one was Brian’s audience in the main, and the second one would have been just a crowd going to the Dalymount gig. There were some Whipping Boy fans there, but this feels like a more special thing. We hadn’t really intended playing gigs, that’s the other side of it. I felt it would be a real shame and a missed opportunity if we put out the album and didn’t mark it in some way with a gig. There was definitely a bit of apprehension and nervousness, but I think you have sometimes to push yourselves. You have to push yourself to say yes and do things that take you out of your comfort zone, I think. That’s something I’ve learned. I spent a long time saying no to things when I wasn’t involved in music.
There’s been all kinds of offers about Whipping Boy and different things coming up. One of the things I’ve learned from being working with Dave and the Sentimental Tourists is to say yes to more things, because the experience is something that might be something that you’ll remember and be something really worthwhile. We’re all getting older, so there may not be many opportunities to play shows and do things like this again, so I think it’s the right thing to do to play, and hopefully it will be good. From what I’ve heard in rehearsal, it should be decent.
DL: Just before we went on in the National Concert Hall, Paul turns around to me and says, ‘Remember, everyone out there is going to be rooting for you to do well; they’re not going to be wishing you bad, they’re going to be wishing you well’. That kind of made me go, ‘that’s okay, that’s grand’. Poured out a glass of wine, took a few sips, and then went on and did it. It was such a buzz doing it. Thanks so much to Brian Mooney. It was a great opportunity. After you’ve done it, there’s the relief — you’re kind of on a high after it. You forget, because I don’t do many, there’s huge gaps in between. I did one in 2018, with a fella called Adrian O’Connell. He’s a brilliant acoustic guitarist. We rehearsed over the internet, and we did Whelan’s Upstairs.
When I was rehearsing for that concert with Adrian… I had this song that was only a minute and a half, but because I was rehearsing imagining I was playing live, all of a sudden it became a song called Underground Song. The first minute and a half had lyrics; it was only about 3 or 4 lines, and then the next minute I started improvising, and this stuff came out. Again, it was another one of those things where the wife came in and said, ‘What the fuck is that? What are you singing about? ’ Then it became the Underground Song, which mentions Whipping Boy.
PP: It’s a brilliant song! The first time I heard that, I got chills, those musical chills, the best kind. I think it’s one of Dave’s best songs on his solo album. It’s rooted back in that time; the Underground would hold a special place for both us and for Into Paradise. It was a proving ground where all young bands at the time took their first steps. It’s great that he’s immortalised it in song. And Jeff (Brennan), who used to run it, gets name-checked in the song. Fearghal (McKee) gets mentioned. It’s a beautiful song.
NMW: After Whelan’s, do you think you’ll do any more gigs or more work together?
PP: We’ll definitely work together. We’re definitely still writing together. I’d be open to doing one or two more gigs. I don’t think we’re going to be going on extensive Irish tours, but I wouldn’t mind trying to play around a few places around the country. We’ll see how it goes, but I’d be surprised if we don’t enjoy it. And if it’s something that we enjoy, then maybe we should do it again.
DL: I’m exactly the same. I’d be surprised if we’re not asked to do something anyway after it.
PP: It’s been good that at the beginning there was no game plan for the two of us. We just were exchanging ideas just to see where it would go, and it led us to the point where we put out an album. When the album was put out, Dave’s still sending me ideas, and I’m still sending him ideas. We enjoy working together, and I’m really happy to keep doing it for as long as I can.
The Sentimental Tourists – Whelans – 31st Oct
NMW: Outside of this, are you working on much other stuff at the minute?
DL: I’ve been working on an album for a couple of years now. It’s with Shane (O’Neill), our fifth one, before I even started on the Sentimental Tourists. We’ve been working on it on and off; it’s coming close to the release stage. It could be next year. Shane’s done a lot of work on it, and he sent me some more finished stuff over the last few days, and it’s sounding great. It’s hard to know how it’ll be perceived. But you don’t really care because you’re in the middle of it. It’s the love of doing it. He does a lot more work on this one; his production is brilliant.
And then what myself and Paul are doing, you know, I play with the idea as well. It might be brilliant to get the whole Sentimental Tourists band into a room where the drums are there and the bass. That’s the first time Paul’s heard about that! I write every day nearly. I’m sure Paul writes in some way every day. He might have a guitar line, he might have an idea for artwork, he might have an idea here, there. And I’m the same. I don’t pick a time to sit down and do it. I could be watching the telly, and the next minute something will come into my head. I’ll hear a conversation, and I think, God, that’s a great line. Every day you’re collecting ideas, and they stay in the back of your head. When you pick up a guitar, those ideas come out and eventually something happens. Or Paul will send me guitar lines. One of the tracks we’ve done that I really like is a song called Beaches. It’s a new one; it’s a piano piece. It’s totally different; it sounds like three piano players.
PP: I’ve been messing around a little bit with more ambient stuff. I released that album Polaroid Ghost at the start of the year, in between working with Dave, literally working on an iPad. I was happy enough to put it out. That song that Dave mentioned, Beaches, has no guitars on it other than Dave’s acoustic, and there’s lots of ambient washes and a bit of piano. I’ve got a couple of new keyboards and synths that I’ve been using. I’ll either incorporate some of that stuff into what we do with Sentimental Tourists or do another instrumental album under the name Polaroid Ghost.
Since COVID, when we were all working from home, I used to listen to ambient stuff on a loop all day and looked for new artists, new ambient music to listen to. I am really interested in that side of it. There’ll probably be a bit more of that stuff. Maybe some of it we’ll incorporate into the Sentimental Tourists. One of the Christmas tracks we did last year, Midnight Mass, was very much a really ambient piece, and Dave really liked it, so I was happy to put it on. Hopefully do a bit more of that.
NMW: Is it easier to bring out music now?
DL: People used to say one of the best things to be would be a writer because you could just write on a pen and paper and it’s done really quickly. Music was always harder because you’d have to go into a big studio, which would cost a lot of money, and you’d have to have somebody who knew what they were doing in the studio to engineer it and get good sounds. It’s complicated; it takes ages. So in one way, music has become like writing in that way, that you can, if you have good ideas, do them for next to nothing. The only money you’re paying out for is getting CDs manufactured or vinyl manufactured. It’s definitely a lot easier, but then it’s a lot harder to come up with good stuff now. There’s so many people making, making records and there’s so much of it. It’s hard even to be seen. But we don’t really do it to be seen; it’s what we’ve always— that’s what I’ve always done. We do it, and that’s it. You put it out. You don’t go hunting for anything. If people come to you, well and good. If they don’t, they don’t. We’ve all had our chance back in the day. Paul had his chance with whatever record label he was with. Into Paradise had their chance, and Shane, who I worked with, he had his chance first, in 1980, ’81. Usually when that chance doesn’t go well, people move away. All of a sudden the wind starts blowing, and the tumbleweed flies across. But if you want to do it forever, that’s there; that’s what you have to put up with.
PP: I feel that there’s a thing in the music industry now, that for the likes of us coming back and making music, it’s hard to get… because we have a name from before; some people will listen to it. Then there are people who would never listen to it because they would see us as past their prime. It can’t be as vital and as valid. Dinosaurs. They’re not going to give it any attention or time, and that’s fine. I probably would have been like that myself when I was younger. I probably wouldn’t have been as open to listening to music if it’s from someone who I thought had had their day. No matter how good we write, we could write the greatest song of the year, and it might not get even a listen. That’s not just with us; it happens with lots of bands. As Dave said, it’s never been easier to make music, but it’s still very difficult to get people to listen to it.
DL: The gig is actually sold out. Paul said to me, ‘I can’t believe we’re getting this last week. I can’t believe this many people are coming of our age are coming out to see us on Halloween night’. And I said to him, ‘I can’t believe so many people our age would come out on any night of the week!’
PP: We were looking for a weekend night, and that was the only one at the time, months ahead that they could give us.
DL: And no, we’re not dressing up!
